I myself would be inclined to agree with ya. But it's a bit of a tough call, there's still quite a sizeable portion of Internet users actually using that resolution. More than I had thought at first!

higher res 1024x768 800x600 others others
17% 57% 20% 0% 6%

-----
-= AOM TealFox a.k.a Kim =-
Administrative Ops. Manager
Co-Founder of the New Worlds Project
Find out more at: http://rpgnewworlds.net

Well, at the very least I think it would be important to find out what our target audience uses. If I had to guess, I would say that the majority of people that play Orpg's, computer games and the like are running on the highest resolution possible. Which makes all of this a moot point anyway. The only reasons I can think of for someone running the lower one is if they've got bad eyesight, a bad moniter, or if they just don't know how to change it.

Personally as an amateur web designer myself, I always want my website to look great in -any- resolution - that way you know you're half-way there to making an impact on your visitors. First impressions count.

I think having the resolution as a criteria is a good thing. Personally, I think sites should focus on looking great in ANY resolution. The Gold Wrym is for sites that go beyond the average design and take the layout to the next step. If you desire the accolade bad enough, you'll learn the tricks on how to make it happen. That's what makes amateur web designers grow. The thirst for knowledge and personal growth is a good thing.

------
http://www.ahnicus.com - Chat and Forum Storytelling Roleplay set within an original fictional world.
http://www.jacmus-prime.com - Fictional World Building

PS. I love using tables on my site. 100%

The Gold Wrym is for sites that go beyond the average design and take the layout to the next step.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Eisel, The Grandma Gamer
The Play by Post Network Advertise your PBP!

I don't think it's very difficult to follow the criteria at all, generally it just means resizing a banner...
But I do agree that it is rather primitive to be viewing things at that resolution. I've got a banner spanning 850 px on my site, which I just realized. I'm kinda curious to know if anyone actually uses 800x600, but if nobody does I wouldn't resize it. Doesn't seem practical...

- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - -

Advertise your online RPG - http://www.pbem2.com

Thar Shaddin - freeform fantasy PbP RP: http://tharshaddin.com

20% of Internet users still use the 800x600 resolution.

-----
-= AOM TealFox a.k.a Kim =-
Administrative Ops. Manager
Co-Founder of the New Worlds Project
Find out more at: http://rpgnewworlds.net

source? Cause I still think it's ghetto.
I mean, now I wonder how many people use browsers that don't handle CSS.

- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - -

Advertise your online RPG - http://www.pbem2.com

Thar Shaddin - freeform fantasy PbP RP: http://tharshaddin.com

If you use IE there are certain very useful bits of CSS that IE just goes "Hey look a butterfly!" and it doesn't display right. The Criteria have been redauxed and redauxed, I'd say there're the best criteria there can be for such a thing and have worked well so far for weeding out the unworthy. It doesn't stop you from requesting a general review, but if you're using Flash and Java and have popup windows and gaudy ads then...well you're probably not up to snuff for the GW. I'm not siting specific examples, I'm just trying to convey the first thing that's gonna' get someone booted from the running.

IE handles CSS. It handles it badly, sure. Firefox isn't perfect either, it has trouble with basic things like centering content. I wouldn't give anyone much credit if they didn't check their page in at least those two major browsers though. It's not that hard to make stuff work for both if you spend an hour tweaking.

When I say not handling CSS, I mean pre-CSS, pre XML/DHTML/whatever browsers. The kind of junk nobody should rightly use anymore. *coughs*like 800x600 resolution*coughs* I bet you like 10% of the internet uses that kind of browser, and I sure ain't catering to them. Just saying, for the sake of argument here. I honestly don't care much, but I think there's a point to be made.

- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - -

Advertise your online RPG - http://www.pbem2.com

Thar Shaddin - freeform fantasy PbP RP: http://www.tharshaddin.com

20% of the internet still uses 800x600? That's a gross underestimation. Think about the hardware on the market, most monitors are six year-old CRTs that are 800x600 default on old windows systems. Around 50-70% of the hardware is running at 800x600.

Don't like it? Tough cookies, that's just the way that it is.

Hi,
Does everyone have their browser window open to full screen size?

I have a nice 17" LCD that displays at 1280x1024, but I don't have my browser window at that size. I find it more useful to have them at about 800 wide as you can then keep an eye on other things as well as the browser.

Plus I don't want to deal with websites that only display as one column (of text) streatched to 1280 wide.

I tend to design for 800x600 (or 760x with loss for browser elements) and make it centred. That way it works for people with smalled resolution and displays ok for larger resolution.

I've tried to include some references below with stats about resolutions being used.

I would write more, but I don't have spare time at the moment.

References

1. W3 Schools - Browser Stastics
2. A Human Factors Approach to the Design of Traffic-Information Web Sites, 2000
3. GVU's Eighth WWW User Survey Technology Bulleted List(Monitor Resolution)
4. Wikipedia talk:Image use policy/Size
5. I have just found out that Microsoft.com is designed for...

My point from the beginning was that, regardless of what the polls say, the reality of the matter is that the target audience for most rpg's are people that are using their moniters to their full capacity. I know quite a few rpg'ers, and I can say for certain that I've yet to meet any that use 800x600. Bearing that in mind, I don't see why I should have to go through the trouble.. (and believe me, after spending weeks trying to do it, it is trouble) .. of coding my website for that 1% of the online gaming community that can't see it properly.

And honestly, coming back to browser issues, my site works fine in 800x600 on all the GOOD browsers.. it's only IE that insists on going a few pixils off screen.

So my original point stands. I don't see why 800x600 should be one of the criteria when the majority of the target audience for rpg's don't use it. I don't think it's fair that if a site meets all the other criteria, that it shouldn't be considered for that one fact. I wouldn't be raising this issue if we were talking about business websites, or something mainstream, but we're talking about roleplaying here. How many roleplayers do you know that use 800x600?

Perhaps becuase this site is run by people who feel that to have site that is eligible for a "Golden Wyrm" (rather than just vbeing recognised as having a good site), your page should display properly on an 800x600 screen.

I know a lot of people that use 800x600 - and a lot more that use large screen resolutions, but that do not have the browser taking up the whole screen.

visit my website ... http://www.aecyr-grene.org/index.shtml ... and don't forget to vote for it

And yeah my source was the w3C Consortium, the ones we go to to make sure our HTML coding and CSS codes render valid

-----
-= AOM TealFox a.k.a Kim =-
Administrative Ops. Manager
Co-Founder of the New Worlds Project
Find out more at: http://rpgnewworlds.net

I'd be more keen on figuring out whether the Gold Wyrm has enough active editors around to actually bump sites to award status - a lot of sites are waiting quite a while before getting enough editors to look over their sites and offer suggestions and the rest.

-----
-= AOM TealFox a.k.a Kim =-
Administrative Ops. Manager
Co-Founder of the New Worlds Project
Find out more at: http://rpgnewworlds.net

"20% of the internet still uses 800x600? That's a gross underestimation. Think about the hardware on the market, most monitors are six year-old CRTs that are 800x600 default on old windows systems. Around 50-70% of the hardware is running at 800x600.

Don't like it? Tough cookies, that's just the way that it is."

Huh. 70%? Wow. And here I've never seen -one- except on really ghetto boxes or junk screens for servers.
And it's like I said. If you think half (! omg ! ) of people are using -that- resolution, then I'll bet that same category includes a big chunk of people using Netscrape 2.0 or something.

- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - -

Advertise your online RPG - http://www.pbem2.com

Thar Shaddin - freeform fantasy PbP RP: http://www.tharshaddin.com

I agree. That's a rediculous assumption. I'm more inclined to believe the statistics that say the people using 800x600 are in the minority. And I've seen at least half a dozen that say this. As cheap as most retail pc computers are these days, you'd have be buying yours off the back of a truck to get a moniter that can't run on 1024x768.

I'd like to see this site that is supposed to set the bar for display of proper online sites actual live up to the standard it desires for the sites it critiques....

It bugs the hell out of me to have your forum display improperly and what have you... come on.... you guys have no problem criticising others but it seems to me that you've not taken a good look at your own layout.

The big eye is nice looking and all but... it really doesn't distract me from the fact that I have to move my cursor up like 4 lines or so above text I wanna highlight to copy... or from the fact that i have to scroll through like two pages of empty space to see the first post in a topic.... come the heck on... i fixed my site in order to comply with all of your critiques but.... i have to ask myself why lately as it seems that you're all just a bunch of near sighted old folks who are living in the past. ((also, i feel it's rather rude that Effie didn't post a reply to my remodel... i appreciate Remmy's revised critique though... and he was harshest critic))

800x600 is the least of the probelms with your Gold Wyrm criterias... I really wanna see you actually make this site stand up to your own criticisms.

Have you ever wanted to play a pen and paper style RPG online? Now you can... come check out The Tangled web at... http://www.thetangledweb.net/home

...

I won't comment but to say that some preassure to strive for improvement is always a good thing.

- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - -

Advertise your online RPG - http://www.pbem2.com

Thar Shaddin - freeform fantasy PbP RP: http://www.tharshaddin.com

A web site should look good in any resolution - even no resolution at all: One of the best players I know is blind. I had no idea until it came up casually OOC one day after I'd "known" this person nearly a year. And I've got to tell you, I didn't see that coming. (No pun intended.) So now everything I design works for not only all resolutions and browsers, it works for screen-readers also.

Yes, it's a pain to make sure the main content and not any sidebar loads first on the page. And no, I've never met another blind roleplayer that I know of. But if I did, I'd want them to feel welcome. Same goes for old folks who don't see that well, or people surfing from a mobile phone. You'd be shocked at how bad a site can look on a Treo. I don't care what equipment they're using - I only care about the depth of their imaginations and their roleplaying skills.

There's no way to know who your "target audience" is going to be. The question isn't what resolution they're using, it's how badly you want or need players that you're willing to exclude anyone who isn't what you want them to be. It doesn't matter what percentage of people are still using 800x600 - if I alienate just one good player because of a design flaw, it's one too many.

Barb
pbem2.com

That is a good point, regarding blind web surfers. I would definately want someone with impaired vision to be able to use a screen reader or whatever to view the site. If that's the reason for it i'd be all in. But I think someone still using 800x600 can deal with a little imperfection. ie the presence of a horizontal scrollbar. As long as the page doesnt, like, explode and send phosphorus glass shrapnel out in all directions.

The poll I tried to run on my forums to see if anyone uses that res was deleted when my server was having an off day, so I never got good results, but out of about 7 people who responded, 1 actually was using it.

- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - -

Advertise your online RPG - http://www.pbem2.com

Thar Shaddin - freeform fantasy PbP RP: http://www.tharshaddin.com

It's just one of those things. After reading this thread I did some googling. Found some good articles about the topic. Every time I design a site, I have this argument with myself - man, I wish I could just ditch that 800x600! I'd like the banner to be WAY bigger! Especially since my preferred resolution isn't 1024x768, its 1280x768... I'm all about the widescreen monitors. As much as I wish everyone would get with the widescreen thing, I know better.

But, I learned a few things last night. There's some nifty tricks out there for switching style sheets using java, depending on what resolution the viewer is using. Didn't know that. Also, Google offers web stats at Google Analytics. Didn't know that either. So hey, live and learn.

Man, that Google Analytics ROCKS. Everyone go get it. *lol*

So far no one visiting pbem2.com is using 800x600, but that's just one day's worth of stats. (And has no bearing on my opinion that we still need to design for it.) By the end of the month when I post the stats on the site we'll see what we've got - ought to be a pretty good cross-section of gamers since pbem2.com draws in all kinds of genres.

But geez, that Google Analytics is pretty impressive. Wow.

Awstats can do the same thing you know It isn't as if Google Analytics is doing anything extraordinary lol

-----
-= AOM TealFox a.k.a Kim =-
Administrative Ops. Manager
Co-Founder of the New Worlds Project
Find out more at: http://rpgnewworlds.net

aw stats appears to require installation of some kind. Google is just 4 lines of html to paste. I could be wrong, didn't look into it.

- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - -

Advertise your online RPG - http://www.pbem2.com

Thar Shaddin - freeform fantasy PbP RP: http://www.tharshaddin.com

Thanks for google stats heads up. So far, just under 11% of my users on one of my sites are using 800 X 600 - which I think justifies the reason for me to continue designing for this size (and others).

---- these dotted lines? ----
http://www.ahnicus.com - Chat and Forum Storytelling Roleplay set within an original fictional world.
http://www.jacmus-prime.com - Fictional World Building

I've been using AWStats for years... preferred it, actually, until now.

Analytics is quite extraordinary, actually. I can now tell what cities these people are coming from, with a map overlay of the world. Fascinating! It also allowed me to take myself out of the stats. And the funnel process thing is cool - I mapped the process of how to post an ad on pbem2, and now it tells me how many people start that process but never finish it, and exactly where in the process they crap out. Plus, it will convert any of the data to text file, XML file, or Excel spreadsheet so you can actually use it. Finally, something I can just email to my clients! Yay! (Not the mention the ridiculous amount of typing and editing I can now avoid to try to get some site stats on pbem2 so people could see them.)

Wicked cool.

Not giving up on AWStats though - one thing I like is how it shows me what people were searching for when they arrived. I like to post that on pbem2 so people can see what potential players are looking for. For instance, quite a few people keep arriving by searching for a Firefly game - and yet no one has posted an ad for one yet. Want to start a game in a genre players are looking for? There you go.

Here's what's being used so far by pbem2.com users:

First is the resolution, next is the number of visitors using that. Percentage-wise, it works out to 3.34% of pbem2.com users are at 800x600.

1024x768 162
1280x800 41
1280x1024 36
1152x864 15
1280x768 11
800x600 10
1440x900 8
1920x1200 7
1280x960 5
1600x1200 2
1400x1050 1
1680x1050 1

That being said, I'm still going to design for them - along with every other resolution on here. But that's just me.

That the resolutions I posted are NOT what internet users as a whole may or may not be using. Just what the people who have visited pbem2.com are using.

Back to the point of this topic...

Again, considering the minority that uses the lower resolutions, I don't think it's fair to expect that of entries for the award. I think it should definitely count in their favor in the considerations, but I don't think it should be one of the minimum criteria. Especially if everything else about the site is up to standard.

I just got a new monitor, and it does get moderately annoying when you browse to a site that has fixed Pixel Ratios, 1280x1024 is my new resolution. Good thing the Nexxus runs on Percentile!!

Because it's standard for many public-access computers such as schools, libraries, et. al. Still.

Frug, you live on the happy side of the digital divide. Our requirements are meant to bring access down to the lowest common denominator -- folks who don't even have computers of their own. The Gold Wyrm is, above all, for sites that are accessible -- which means they display properly everywhere as well as being open to all and easy to use. I'd like to require Bobby-compatibility, but I think that would be taking it a bit far.

Now, if there's an issue with one of the Nexxus sites, please post in separate thread listing a) the URL you have a problem with and b) a description or link to a screen shot ... and I'll fix it. The Nexxus is now six sites with six different designs that run off the same code. I need to know where in the haystack to look

Example (try it):

http://www.rpgherald.com/forum_topic/concerning_the_gold_wyrm

http://www.rpghearth.com/forum_topic/concerning_the_gold_wyrm

http://www.rpgtales.com/forum_topic/concerning_the_gold_wyrm

http://testing.rpgcomplete.com/forum_topic/concerning_the_gold_wyrm

http://www.rpgcrossings.com/forum_topic/concerning_the_gold_wyrm

http://forums.rpggateway.com/forum_topic/concerning_the_gold_wyrm

And they all look fine to me on Firefox.

Okay if google analytics means anything, those of you saying that 800x600 is in high use are quite right. According to that, 24% of my hits are in that res, and I wouldn't believe it without checking it myself, but it is the second most used resolution. A freaking quarter of the hits.

Clearly I live on one side of the digital divide, yes. Cause I just don't see it. And 24% is higher than tealfox's quote of 20%, which I didn't believe. Curse you, reality. Bend to my will!

And Effie, I think some of the problem may be that you still have links to RPGOpinions and RPGSwap and they both look broken.

- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - -

Advertise your online RPG - http://www.pbem2.com

Thar Shaddin - freeform fantasy PbP RP: http://www.tharshaddin.com